prefer to read the conversation?

Brooks Ann Interview

Today’s episode is a doozy. I have the pleasure of chatting with Brooks Ann Camper , and you get to listen in.

So, Brooks Ann has had such an interesting life and it’s fun to hear her story. It’s also though really great to hear about why she does what she does. So Brooks Ann has an online sewing. Actually three of them, where she teaches students how to take their own unique body and make patterns directly for their body, not for anyone else’s body, not using any kind of industry standards, just physically taking their own body and their own preferences and making what they love.

She didn’t start out as a sewist though. She started out working in theater and she has a really fun little story about how she went from being on the set design to learning how to sew and being in the costume shop. she shares her story and how she got to where she is, but the majority of our conversation is about why she does what she does and what lights her up, and how she chooses a slow process driven life to create a life that works really well for her.

And I have to tell you, I was so inspired when I talked to Brooks Ann. We have a lot of similarities, to be honest, and I just adore her. . But there are some ways in which we’re distinctly different, and I’ve found so much inspiration in those differences. And as happens, really when I talk to anybody on the podcast, I’m able to take that and look at my own life and think, Hmm, what kind of elements of that do I want to incorporate in my life?

Because that sounds really great. And so I think you’re gonna have a really great time listening to this conversation as well. So let’s get started.

You are listening to the In Kinship Podcast, a podcast for makers who crave an authentic, vibrant, sweet life on their own terms.

Today’s episode is sponsored by Howl at the Loom Howl at the Loom. It’s headed up by Jasmine Petri, and Jasmine is a weaver in northern Michigan. She has been for about 10 years and she prioritizes locally grown and processed fibers and upcycled materials. She has a passion for spreading her love textiles, and on her website you can see what kind of clashes she teaches and the work that she does.

You can find out more about Howl at the Loom at H O W L A T T H E L O O M.com,

Tina: So I am here with Brooks Ann. Welcome 

Brooks Ann: Hi Tina. Thanks for having me.

Tina: Oh, it is exciting to have you. I have long admired your work and admired your sense of humor that you are able to put through on your social media and your blog posts. And I, um, have always known that we probably would be good friends if we live near each other. So I am very excited to have you on the podcast today and to talk to you and get to know you a little better.

Brooks Ann: Well, thanks for having me. Um, I feel the same. I feel like we should be friends and even though this is the first time we’ve actually talked to each other before,

Tina: Exactly. So let’s begin by getting into a little bit about who you are and your background. I know that you’ve done some amazing blog posts, so if somebody hears something of interest, which they’re going to, um, they should check out your blog, which is on brooks sand.com, and they will read all about your interesting and exciting pathway into sewing.

but maybe you could share with us a bit about your background as far as your technical sewing, but then also let’s talk a little bit about, how you identify as a maker or what, or if you identify as a maker. So tell us a bit about yourself, if you will.

Brooks Ann: yes, I identify with them as a maker, so we can start there. Um, and I guess that is the one through line, through everything. Like as a kid, I would say that I was a maker and through, you know, high school and stuff, so my main way of making, uh, these days is sewing, and I do, um, custom sewing.

So it’s only for, um, individuals. I don’t sew anything, you know, for mass production. And I don’t work with, um, mass produced patterns or anything. I just do this like intimate little process, just me and, uh, an individual. , so that’s, what I make as a maker, although I like to make everything.

But when growing up, I, you know, just dabbled in, in lots of stuff. And I went to college for, theater and I loved acting and I really loved set construction. And, um, I was not really into sewing. I hadn’t entered my, you know, realm at, until I was a senior. , my sewing origin story is that I was.

Passed in a play where , I was sitting backstage, um, in between scenes and I had gotten my dress all wrinkled, and the head of the department saw me and told me to go iron my dress before I went back on stage. And I told him that I had never used an iron before. And he got miffed at me and he told me that I wasn’t gonna be able to work in the scene shop like I wanted to on the next production.

I was gonna work in the costume shop with him, and he was gonna teach me how to use an iron and he was gonna teach me how to sew. I was just like, okay, well, I will accept my punishment, and, um, and spend, time, um, in the costume shop, instead of, in the scene shop. And so then I loved it.

And, um, and then it went from there. I was a senior in college, so I didn’t know what to do next. So Almost as a joke applied to the Yale School of Drama for their costume internship program. Um, and so they only take one student a year , or one intern a year. And, um, and for some reason they picked me.

So I really went from not knowing how to sew, you know, in that one college setting to learning to sew at Yale. So I have sort of this like Ivy League, be league beginning. And um, and then that led me to a master’s degree in costume production, um, which led me to sewing for Broadway. Um, this is five years from, I don’t know how to use an iron.

And so I was a miler for Broadway shows and, then eventually left New York and started my own, um, couture bridal business. And now I am, um, , I teach custom sewing to people who sew for themselves. All of that was about, individuals, I never learned to sew, sew clothes from, commercial patterns.

So I have a little bit different perspective. Um, and so that’s why I think I’m a little bit uniquely qualified to teach this type of sewings people who love to sew for themselves. Um, so that’s kinda my maker story. Um, but I love woodworking. In the middle there, there was nine years where I, worked as a, um, custom picture frame.

Like I would make, picture frames for museums, you know, like hand carving and gold gilding and all that stuff. 

So yeah, that’s, that’s my story quickly. But yeah, I, I am doing a sew anniversary blog series right now.

Um, um, and I should have all the pieces out by the time this airs, telling all the details and showing stories, uh, pictures of all that. 

Tina: I’ve been following that process. that you’ve been sharing on your So anniversary. And it’s been a lot of fun. So if anyone, um, would love to see some great pictures of Brooks Ann in all sorts of crazy situations, you can check that out. Like I always get a big laugh and I love how you present it and I love how you share what you have going on and that lightness and it’s really fun to watch .

Thank you so much for sharing. it’s interesting to me. Um, while you were speaking, I was thinking about this, I was thinking, so couture sewing is sort of, um, it’s not an antiquated thing, but it certainly has its roots in our history, right? Sewing for one body as opposed to having a pattern for multiple bodies.

And then, um, making. Picture frames for museums with carving and gilding and all of that certainly feels like an antiquated sort of skill. Right? Something from our past.

Brooks Ann: Mm-hmm.

Tina: Are you drawn, are you drawn to the ancient techniques? Is there like a base like draw for you there?

Brooks Ann: That, that’s a good question. And I would say yes. Um, I like to, I like research. I like, you know, history. I like, um, you know, the, the crafts that take time. I’m really trying to, I’d like to try to steer my life away from the like condense and consume and make it all as quick as possible.

I understand how efficiency could be very helpful, , but I, um, I kind of always steer away from the efficient method versus the like, take your time and , do it slow. I mean, it’s all an exercise in patience. Um, and so practicing that patience while doing something that you really enjoy helps you have patience in your real life too.

So I think that, you know, having these jobs, even if there is like theater, you know, when you’re sewing for theater, it is sort of a go, go, go, you know, there’s a hectic pace to it, which I have stepped back from. Um, and so, but it’s still all this like slow, take your time, get it right the first time so you don’t have to go back and do a big repair or anything.

Um, And then also the similarity when you were talking I, the similarity between the, like designing a wedding dress for a person, um, when I was doing the frame job. So the frame job came before the wedding dresses. Um, but I still see them as very similar in that the frames we made were designed specifically for each piece of art.

 Most of the time we would get, you know, specific piece of art and then we would design for it. And that’s how I feel about the wedding dresses too. Like, it’s about the person, it’s not about the dress and it’s about the art.

It’s not about the frame, but this thing that you get to embellish is it’s supposed to bring out the beauty. In the person or the piece of art or whatever, I knew when I wanted to start making things for myself when I became an entrepreneur or whatever, is that I didn’t want to make something and then try to sell it to someone. I wanted to make something for someone. And not only as a business perspective, it’s real great to have someone say yes before you’ve made the thing, you know, to go ahead and like, sign that contract and get the, get the thing going before you invest a bunch of time making something that you don’t know if it’s gonna sell.

Um, but also the whole process, the whole making process is inspired already because it’s this person, it’s about this person. Um, and so like, I don’t consider myself a designer. A lot of people call me a fashion designer, and I don’t, identify with fashion or with designer.

I know that they’re trying to say the right thing, , they don’t know what to call me. I don’t know what to call me. Uh, a maker is really the best, best, you know, word. But that’s confusing to people too. So, um, but I, I don’t consider myself a designer because I work for individuals and I’m really just designing for and with them.

Like they helped me through that process. I like to make the thing. 

My degree is in costume production, not costume design, which is something I sought out, like the designer reads the plays and decides what everyone’s gonna wear and maybe is even, or a fashion designer, you know, is expressing their own, um, you know, whatever to the world. 

I don’t have anything to express. I just wanna I wanna help you express . I wanna help you learn how to make clothes that you wanna wear. And yeah. And then design just kind of comes naturally if you know what you wanna wear.

Tina: Brooks Ann, Can I just say I understand what you’re saying because, I definitely identify as a maker, right? And I also teach sewing in a different vein to some degree than what you teach. But I have the same end goal in mind. I don’t wanna necessarily create patterns for people to, to use.

I wanna create basic patterns for people to use. Cause that’s the vein I teach in. And then I want them to make it their own. I wanna teach them how to make it their own. And so, . I also do graphic design and I do several different things, but I always work best when I have a problem to solve. Right. And the problem is like, not nearly a as beautiful of a way of speaking it as you just spoke it, as like you’re enhancing the artwork in front of you.

Right? And so I’m gonna change my language around that, cuz I love how you’re saying that. But I like to have parameters and then I can explode within those parameters, right? But if I don’t have parameters,

Brooks Ann: Absolutely.

Tina: I can’t think of anything to do and I’m like, I, I dunno, I dunno what to do with this.

But like, so every night I tell my little boy a story and I’m like, gimme three things. And so he has to choose three things and they can be like a shoe, a dragon, and a penny, right? Whatever. And then I’ll develop a story, a bedtime story for him from those three things. But if he didn’t gimme those three things, I’d be like, huh, I have no idea.

I have no idea what to tell you. I can’t

Brooks Ann: Yeah. Yeah, that’s exactly,

Tina: Yeah. 

Brooks Ann: People look through my like bridal portfolio and they’re like, oh, these design, you know, you design such, amazing dresses. And I’m like, well, Deborah designed that one, and Lila Rose designed that one. I just facilitate and yeah, it’s, it’s those parameters so when I meet with a bride, um, The first thing we do is just list a bunch of adjectives, you know?

And then as we’re going through, I’m helping her figure out design things. We can come back to the, you know, we’re like, oh, okay, well do you like this leave or this leave? And if, if it’s like, I don’t know, I love them both. We can go back to the adjectives and say, oh, well, does this fit, you know, that feminine look you were looking for, whatever.

You know, like it helps you to whittle down. I, I like to start with all the ideas, like every idea we can possibly think of. Let’s just bam all that in there and then start fiddling away, like, Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. Until you’re done at the end. And then you’ve got still probably too many ideas, but they can help, you know, get it all together and in the end it’s perfect.

That’s another thing as far as how I work, and that’s unique from, for not sewing with, um, commercial patterns or sewing in the way that you’re saying, or you have a base pattern and you, um, can change it up, is that I have to sketch a dress for the bride, you know, before we start making the dress so we can communicate to each other.

But that’s not dead set on that, like, the end is almost always different than we thought it was going to be when we got started. But it’s better, you know, it’s not that there were these like, oh, we, we made a mistake or something. It was that we just kept evolving and the whole process just evolves and lays itself out for you if you just like set it in motion, you know,

And so it’s one of those things where you do a whole lot of prep, but then you let the whole process. , um, speak to you and like if you listen, if you listen to the, as far as design, yes, but also in construction. I mean, that’s what I teach in my classes as well, is like you just have to take it one step at a time.

We are only at the, you know, pattern making stage. We do not need to think about seam finish, as, you know, when we get to the finishing the seam after we’ve had the base of fitting and everyone wants to start at the end, but there’s so much, there’s so much before that as far as like prep to get you to that end really successfully,

Tina: Yeah.

 And I think it’s such a good, correlation to life, right? The idea of like make your plans and then let them go and follow the path and see where it takes you and that you’re very likely to end up someplace much more beautiful than you could have imagined. But it’s good to have that plan to get you started and then just let it go.

I think that’s beautiful. I’ve been trying to do that in my business as well cuz I can be, I’ve got like 17 journals and I can be very much a planner of things and I’m trying to just do that cuz it gives me a lot of joy. It gives me a lot of peace. But then like, Let it go and see where things go and let it take you 

Brooks Ann: and things take time. So if you like set this plan and you set this deadline, you don’t know what you’re getting yourself into. So that deadline is really, you have to remember that it was self-imposed and that it is editable and that. Better to not just try to, I mean, I guess in some situations you need to meet the deadline.

The, the bride is getting married on a specific day or whatever. But if it’s just like within the business, I have things on my, like top of to-do list for 2018 that I am still wanting to get to. You know, like I, because I have so many ideas for new classes, but I still have to take care of all the old classes.

I am nurturing my current students all the time and things just take time. I think is the, is the main thing is like to have patience to be um, give yourself grace for those deadlines that you don’t meet because you didn’t know what you were talking about when you set the deadline.

You know, like cuz it’s gonna take longer than you thought. If, if you’re like me, if you’re like me, I guess a lot of people are really, are, you know, are really good at being speedy and they really like to get to the finish line and all that and I’m uh, I take a lot of time you know, just cuz I’m very D iy, I’m totally diy.

Like I am a one woman business. We’re doing everything. On my terms , but it’s, which is fine because . Like I’ve worked with teams and I’ve done all that before and I like doing the whole thing by myself. I could absolutely hire a video team to help me make the videos for my online courses, but I don’t work like that.

Like I couldn’t work like that. Like it’s the opposite of how my, my class would run cuz how my courses, it just teaches the process of custom sewing, you know, from start to finish. Like you learn design, you learn to how to make, patterns. You learn how to fit, you learn how to sew.

And so it can be for a total beginner. But from the back end, me making this video, these videos, what I’m doing is once we get to the point where you’ve made your tools and you’ve drafted your patterns, I, um, I take three garments from start to finish and then to inspire you to mix and match things from each of them to make your own garment.

So in the pattern making section, we learn how to make all kinds of different patterns so you can come up with whatever style you wanted to. But as far as finishing techniques, like in the intro skirt class, I’ll teach, you know, three different waistline finishes, four different hems, three different zippers, you know, four different seam finishes, different fabrics.

Some, you know, some has lining, some has, doesn’t ha you know, pockets or whatever. So of all those, you get a demo of me doing it While making myself some clothes, which is almost the only time that I get to make some clothes for myself, is when I’m doing it on camera. Um, and I like to take my time.

So it would be a disservice for everyone if I had a camera crew trying to like wade through this process with me. Cuz it’s a lot of just me standing around and thinking, and, you know, like, I need that alone time when I’m making clothes for myself and all that. So you get the process, but it’s gonna take time because I, I’m the one who’s climbing up on the table and turning on the camera and climbing back on the table and then pressing record and then doing the demo and then going back and taking off the sound.

But that’s how I wanna do it. I like, I like solo sewing. , by this time in my career, which is my 26th, sew anniversary, um, you know, I’ve gotten to the point where I can, you know, just, just do what I want to do. Um, and so it takes time, but it’s, it’s good.

Tina: that’s beautiful. I can completely relate because I also do all of my own things. I do my own, you know, like for a long time I had a step ladder with a broom across it and my camera was like buny, corded to the broom to be coming down on my table. And then I would realize I forgot to hit play and now I’ve already sewn the piece and now I’ve gotta redo the piece and sew it again because I didn’t get it recorded.

You know, like all those things. Definitely I can understand that process. Um, and I can understand wanting to not be pressured by having a, for higher crew there to get through something more quickly like that Makes a lot of sense. 

What prompted you to wanna do online courses?

Brooks Ann: So I am someone, so you heard a little bit about my educational background and, um, so it wasn’t until I, had already had a career. So for celebrities on Broadway that I had, um, I never stood as a hobby. It was always as a profession. And so it wasn’t until, um, I can’t think of like when, as far as a date, it would’ve been that I like cracked open my first commercial pattern.

 I was like, oh, this is great. Like I need a coat. Like, look, somebody already made a coat. Oh my gosh, this is the neat thing. Like I will just take this pattern and then I’ll make myself a coat. And I remember, I remember it was a Colette pattern. It was ten twenty three, that’s my birthday.

And I was like, this is gonna be amazing. And then I unfolded all the tissue , and then I saw all these lines and charts and it was nothing like I wanted to do. Like I was just folded it up. It was not inspiring for me. I didn’t know where the person was in the pattern. I didn’t even know how to compare myself. I don’t like a comparison process where I’m trying to figure out someone else’s work and where I, where do I jump into that process and where does my body fit into this pattern? But also just like anytime there’s a whole bunch of numbers or a whole bunch of charts or lines or whatever, like I shut down.

And so then I realized like, oh, this is not, I don’t like this at all. Like, if I would have been introduced to sewing in that way, I would’ve never, I would’ve just tossed it away immediately. I would’ve been like, okay, that’s, that was cool. Move on. And so I folded that pattern up.

It’s still in my drawer. I have like a drawer of like, you know, maybe a dozen patterns or something cuz people give them to me or they come with craftsy courses or whatever. But that I never made that coat. And um, but then that’s sort of when I realized that there was this, Home sewing community.

Um, and I, I wanted to be a part of that. And so I was like, okay, well, I’ll try to jump in. And everything was just a little different. Like I would find myself, like, someone would give some tip and I’m like, yeah, yeah. And I’m like, wait, no. What? Why would you do that? Like, oh, really? Oh, no. Oh, that’s how you do it.

Oh, no. You know, like, it was just like not what I had done. And so I love. I love that. Commercial patterns get people sewing. Um, I love that there are so many people who love to use them. I am not one of them. And I realized that there are probably people like me who have never heard of like what I’m doing.

And so I started doing research and I started to look for, you know, books and stuff on to show how I learned to sew at Yale. Um, and I couldn’t find anything like it really. And I was like, oh gosh, not only. Do I have this like knowledge, but I want to, I wanna share it. Like I want, I want people to see how fun, what I do is.

And since people who make clothes for themselves are making clothes for an individual, it seems to make more sense than following, something that was mass produced and then designed for multiple people. And then, you know, you do these factory finishes or whatever, um, it just, I didn’t wanna learn that and I didn’t wanna learn full bust adjustments and I didn’t wanna learn swayback adjustments.

Like, I don’t, I don’t wanna learn it. Um, it’s not, it’s not interesting to me. I’ve never had to learn that because when you have the person right in front of you, it does not matter how, how slopey their shoulder is compared to someone else’s shoulder. Just do the shoulder that’s right there in front of you.

And so, especially if you are just sewing for you, then you only have to learn that one body. You only have to learn one shoulder slope, and so anyway, I wanted to. Sharing this with the world. Uh, and at the time I was, so this is 2014 was when I made my first e-course.

Um, and in 2014 I was working at the frame shop. So my day job was that I was, you know, in my overalls, hand carving and sanding stuff. And then my side gig was the wedding dress business that I worked out in my house. Um, so I would just do one dress a year and, um, and blog about it. It’s all on my blog,

Every wedding dress I’ve made since 2009, I’ve blogged the process. And so, the frame shop job one day. while my husband was on vacation, kind of crashed and burned. Like we had a shop meeting that sort of changed everything for everyone. And so, while my husband was on a trip with his friend, um, I put in my two weeks notice for my job. So I was like, I’ve got to come up with a new job before my husband comes home.

This is 2014 when e-courses were really new. I’ve found a six week e-course on how to make a six week e-course . And so I signed up for that and I said, I’m just gonna figure out how to teach sewing online 

and, the class that I made in 2014 was skirt skills. And , that’s the intro class that I still offer. I’ve fully revised it since then. But it’s still the same core class. And then now I have follow up classes that, once you’ve, learned all the basics by doing, the most, the easier garment, which is skirts and it’s a foundational garment, then you can, um, move on to pants and, uh, tops and dresses.

And then that’s, um, flat pattern. Um, I wanna teach draping classes. I wanna teach hand sew classes. I have so many more classes that I wanna teach as well, but it’s just, it’s, it takes a lot of time and there’s a lot of, when you’re a one woman’s show, there’s a lot of backend stuff, you know?

My day to day, there’s very little making, there’s a whole lot of writing. Like I tell people when they come over, like people think my job is sewing, my job is writing. Um, because I do my blog posts and then all my e-courses, they’re not live. , they’re , produced videos.

And so I’ve written, you know, each one and each course is about 16 hours complete. And so, I’ve written all these books, but they just happen to be in video for 

Tina: Right, 

Brooks Ann: Because I wanna interact with the people, and truly make it custom, just like one pattern doesn’t fit anybody.

, I want my students to interact with me because I can offer them so much more about them as an individual if I can interact with you as an individual. Um, not that you can’t just go through the class and be a success, but, I would love to work with you.

And so that’s really where I, my comfort zone and where my fun is, is like, is working with my students each day. And so every morning I’m usually working with my students online, and then the afternoon is what else I can get done. 

and now a word from our sponsor. Today’s episode is sponsored by Howl at the Loom. Jasmine with Howl at the Loom is a local Weaver, Dyer and teacher, and by local, I mean she’s local to Northern Lower Michigan. . She passionate about sharing her love of textiles, but she’s also passionate about locally grown and processed fibers, about upcycled materials, and about sharing what she knows with other people.

Not only that, but she’s really pivotal in bringing the Tip of the Mitt fiber fair here to Northern Lower Michigan. And for that, I am eternally grateful. I would love it if you would. Check out her website, howlattheloom.com.

H O W L A T T H E L O O M.com.

Tina: Do you still do custom bridal wear ?

Brooks Ann: Um, good question. Uh, yes and no. So when the pandemic hit, I had a second mockup fitting ready for my bride, Claire, that we were gonna meet on March 17th, 2020. And before I start cutting her wedding dress fabric and, um, you know, everything got canceled. So that dress is still in mockup form with a bunch of fabric purchase.

And she’s married now and she says maybe they’ll have a wedding someday or whatever. But, uh, did not make any pandemic, dresses. And I also in 2020 we moved, my husband and I, moved out to the country in the middle of nowhere, and we’ve got, um, acres and we’ve got , a future studio space for me.

So right now I have future studio, which is at this point a little 1910 house that we have gutted. And so, but it’s at the gutted stage. It’s not at the . Like you can go in and not get dirty stage . 

You know, getting that project again, I’m slow. Um, getting that project done is gonna take a unique combo of, money and health and time to get the studio ready. So I’m in a temporary studio now, so I am also just sort of treating this as a time to take a break from brides. I will want to get back into it when I am, um, in my new studio that I don’t really want to right now.

Like I’ve got so much other stuff. Another reason why I’m, I’m taking a pause on brides is that, um, in some ways I do the brides for the sewing community.

 In some ways I choose my brides for the blog. Um, because I’m gonna be telling this story out to the world and I do want to attract sew people because I do want to teach them, a way to sew if that is something that they’re interested in. But I also like really want to get out all this educational content that’s in my head and there’s just, I’m a patient person, but there’s never enough time.

Tina: There never is. I can again completely relate to your process and that, just this morning I was woken up in the middle of the night, really like 4:00 AM with all these ideas for things I wanted to create and things I wanted to make for my business. And definitely , I understand the challenge of having an online business and how it then takes up all of your time, more or less, and you’re not making other things for yourself.

Right, because I completely related to the idea that the only clothes you have are the ones that you’re making on film. That’s exactly my experience as well. And so how do we find room for that and like do you miss making just for the act of making? And do you have anything that you do make outside of your business and your sewing ?

Brooks Ann: Uh, good questions. Um, yes. The dress maker has no clothes, is what I always tell people. . I don’t have any new clothes I haven’t purchased clothes. Um, I don’t like, I don’t like sizing. I don’t like sizing to be a part of my life. Um, and I have made this little world where it doesn’t have to exist.

That’s one of the things that, I want people to experience when they take my class is like this little world where, um, you don’t have to compare yourself to how much amount of sway your back is to somebody else’s. And there’s not someone who’s saying you’re a four or a 14 or a 44, like none of that is a thing.

Um, and so, uh, that , but I was talking about shopping. It’s like, so I don’t like to go to stores like where I have to like look at a rack of the same thing and see the numbers. I’m not a numbers person. Um, and so, so I will shop at thrift stores cuz things are organized by color. Um, and you just put it on and if it fits, great.

And if it doesn’t then it doesn’t. Mostly I just have clothes that are. I either made on camera or via a pattern that I made on camera. You know, like after I’ve done the whole process online, then I’ll make myself another, like I’m wearing a pair of jeans right now that I made in my pants class.

Um, but in the pants class I made them out of hot pink corduroy. Um, and so you watched me make, uh, the whole thing in hot pink corduroy on camera. But then right after I finished the class I was like, I need some pants. Because I had worked on this pants class for years. Um, because well this is gonna go on a different tangent 

um, the way that I teach, um, sewing is by making your own patterns. And, what I originally thought when I was going to make my classes was that, so there are three different ways that, that you can make a custom pattern. And there are three different garments that you can make.

So the three different ways that you can make a custom pattern are, flat pattern making, um, draping or, um, taking something that already exists, like a commercial pattern or a finished garment or something. And, starting with with that. So the draping and pattern making starts with the person, and then the other one kind of starts with not the person, and then you alter it to the person.

Anyway, I’m interested really in the draping and the pattern making. And the flat pattern, and they all seem to go well with, a garment. So, uh, skirts, I think translate really well to making a pattern via flat pattern tops, uh, would translate really well for draping and drapings, actually, my favorite way to make clothes.

And then for pants, I was gonna teach how to take a pair of pants that you already love and then make a duplicate at it. And so I had taught skirt skills and I had taught this flat pattern making, and then I was getting ready to start teaching the pants class. And I’m asking my students like what they want, and they were like, please don’t tell us to get a pair of pants that already fit.

And then, because we don’t have pair of pants that already fit, right? That’s why we’re taking course and so I’d be like, okay, so I mean, I hadn’t made the class yet. I was just polling and, and then they were like, no, we love. Flat pattern. Teach us how to do flat pattern. Well, the thing is I’ve never seen a flat pattern like, pants making system or skirt or tops.

I’ve never seen any like, systems to create the blocks that I liked, and so I had to invent them myself. So for, um, for skirt skills, I invented a whole different way to make a block. And it only takes information from your body or your personal preferences. There’s zero fashion formulas, there’s no chart for ease, there’s no anything like we just take you and we map you.

And it’s very logical. It’s very easy to see how you can get a custom fit. It’s very intuitive. Um, but yet the way you usually learn is to get a flat pattern making book designed for a fashion textbook. So it was designed to be made for someone To mass produce something, but they will teach you ways.

Well, you can plug in one of your numbers here and one of your numbers here, but there’s always gonna be a, this is two inches for everyone and this is an add a quarter, an add of whatever. What does all that mean? I don’t know. I have a literal master’s diploma of pretty much pattern making, and those systems don’t make perfect sense to me.

Like there’s some stuff in there I can understand, but there’s a lot of stuff that I don’t understand. And so I don’t want to teach something that I don’t understand. Um, and I don’t work well when I don’t understand something. Like I don’t blindly follow anything. Instead, I’ll research something for seven years and then figure it out.

And so, so that’s what happened Uh, it came pretty naturally for me because I was already thinking about it as being a flat patterning project with pants. I thought it was gonna be a piece of cake, and, um, I worked on it for seven years. I ran beta sessions, I had to invent a new way to make pants that do not involve any standard measurements.

It’s only information from your body. So to understand how each line and curve corresponds with your anatomy was my challenge. And to have something that would work for anyone in my, you know, like the way that I sew, there’s no size range. There’s no like, uh, you know, plus size because there is no size.

You can take size totally away from it. And so it’s been really fun. So this. Year was the first time that I ran the first non-beta session, like the session where I think, okay, I think I did it. I think I finally solved this puzzle of how to create a easily understandable system where someone can use only their body and then come up. any kind of pant from a very relaxed fit that’s almost just like the skirt, but with a crotch in it to custom fit non-st stretch jeans. And so it’s all I, I learned that pants fit is the spectrum. I learned way more than I ever wanted to know about pants. I’m not even all that interested in pants, but it’s what I’ve dedicated the past.

Like, I mean, it’s not, I was working on it every minute for seven years, but it was always the project. Like I would run the class as a beta test at least once a year to get new people to try just the ideas that I had been thinking about. And they would know that like, I don’t know what I’m talking about yet.

You know, like, I’m just trying to figure it all out. And so I think it’s also fun for my students to be part of that process

where, you know, Brooks Ann is inventing something new and we get to be a part of it. Um, so now, right now I am, um, at the point where I feel like I’ve got a cohesive of like three core classes.

 And so now I feel like I can start jumping in and really teach that draping class that I wanted to teach six years ago because drap draping is what I really love. And so I’ve made the, an ebook on how to make a custom dress form. And so that would be the equivalent of the block that you make for flat patterning is, is like a custom dress form, but one that you, it’s flat, you can fit it in a drawer instead of having a live size replica of yourself.

But I. The 3d, I’m a 3D person. I’m a hands on let the fabric tell you what it wants person. So all the flat pattern has been a good challenge for me too, because I also love it, but I always hated all the charts and the math and the, that kind of stuff. Like it, I can follow those directions and plot point A and plot point F and plot point A to one or whatever, but I, I don’t know what I’m doing and I don’t know what I’m gonna get at the end.

And it’s all guesswork. And so I, I like to, uh, have the control of like doing the whole thing from start to finish and, um, just seeing how it goes.

Tina: Right. I wanna jump in here and say, when you first released your book on the Do-it-yourself dress form, I immediately bought it.

Brooks Ann: Mm-hmm.

Tina: And I absolutely agree with you about removing the sizing. And that’s exactly why I sew too. And that’s why I teach sewing because it allows a human to just be a human.

And you no longer have to worry about fitting or not fitting. And when I go into a store, which is so infrequent, I’m always like shocked at the sizes. And I’m always shocked at like how to figure out where I fit in the sizes. And then I’m always somewhat discouraged by the sizes. And it’s like, why would I be discouraged with this body that I walked in the store loving and I walked out of the store hating, right?

And it’s like, that’s so arbitrary and ridiculous. So I’m completely on board with you on all of that. . So I bought your do-it-yourself dress form probably because your cute body was online in your undergarments and I felt like I already adored you and here you are, like showing us how it is. And I’m like, yes.

So I bought it immediately and then my life shifted and I’ve gone through a divorce and other things where I needed to refocus what I was doing. And I was thinking about that dress form book today in preparation for our call, cuz I haven’t done anything with it. I have a studio that I’m be just beginning to put together.

Brooks Ann: Mm-hmm. 

Tina: this is so frustrating. Uh, like this is true confession time.

I, because of this autoimmune thing that I have going on, I’m on steroids and so my body has changed. And I’m like, I don’t really wanna make a custom dress form for the body I have right now. I’m gonna wait until my body is different. And I’m like, Tina, that is such bullshit. Like, you know better than this, right?

 How many times have I taught my students to work with the body we have right now? Love the body you have right now. And here I am, this little hypocrite sitting in my kitchen who’s like, I’m gonna wait to make the dress form until my body’s a little different. So I just am like, I’m confessing it right now, right here on the podcast.

And I wanna say that it’s crap. And there you go. 

Brooks Ann: I can help you with that also. Yes. Well also, so we’re both in this transitional studio situation and not really wanting to get into permanent projects, which is totally fine. Um, but also, just to, give you that extra nudge. , one of the reasons why I love padding dress forms the way that I teach in the book, is that you can change it, like it changes with you because as long as your dress form is smaller than you everywhere, which is the only requirement, really, , you can keep adjusting the padding.

You know, like I, I feel like it’s better to have one that’s way smaller than you, than anywhere near your measurements, because then, then it’s totally customizable. The more padding you use, the more customizable you can have. I’m always redoing, well, I didn’t make a custom dress form for mine myself until you see me making it in that book.

You know, I, the, I’m always the last one to get something. But for my brides, you know, they’re almost always like changing shape from the time, cuz we usually work together for eight months or so and some brides, , will, you know, stress eat and some brides will lose weight. Everyone’s body fluctuates and so that’s not a problem.

 You just take off some padding or add some padding, move it around. Because there’s nothing sew. It’s all just pinned on. Um, and so, uh, I’ve got my dress form here, like looking at me right here with some fabric draped on it, and a necklace. ,

Tina: You’ve

inspired me. All right. Cuz you know what, one of the things I think might be, um, a problem with me , is that I tend to think that things are permanent. Right? So once I’ve done it, I don’t ever wanna go back to it and redo it. So I have this permanency in my head. And so for you to inspire me here to say, no, it’s supposed to be fluid and it’s okay that my

body is what it is right now and let it be,

Brooks Ann: Yes, my, uh, my philosophy is almost always the opposite. I look as everything as reversible and adjustable, you know, com through every step of sewing. That’s one of the things I love about sewing is people see things in the middle of the process as mistakes. And I don’t see, like, you can always go back, like, that’s a gift.

That’s like, you got to try something and you got to learn that it didn’t work before you got to the end. Wonderful. Like, you know, you can just go and change it and at that step or go back. And so I do a lot of basting. I do a lot of cautious prep, um, and I take a long time when I sew, but in the end, Like, I remember my, my, uh, husband once, this is one of the best things he said to me is that when, I’m almost down to the wire on a wedding dress or whatever, and I’m wondering, you’re like, is it gonna be good?

Is it whatever? And he told me, he is like, you haven’t failed yet. You always get to the end and you always like, you know, make it work. And so, it’s not a failure if, um, if at the end it doesn’t have that, whatever you were worried about or. Also, but I guess I also have a different perspective of what things look like when they look, when they are complete.

Like I think because, clothing that we wear mostly comes with factory finishes and the home sewing pattern industry also, you know, shares those kinds of finishes. The, the, um, result seems to be that the goal is to make it look like it came from a store.

Um, from my background, I, I know differently. Like I would be so sad if someone thought that something I made came from a store. I don’t look at coming from the store as a great example of what good sewing should look like. I. I want to see those mistakes. I wanna see that wonky stitch.

That wonky stitch is way more interesting than that one. That looks like it came from a factory. I teach a hand sewing class, um, at Camp Workroom social. It’s always about changing people’s perspective about hand sewing. I remember my students saying like, you know, oh, I love hand sewing, but I can’t, I don’t know how to get my stitches like perfect.

And even, and I’m like, why would you want to do that ? You know, like if you wanna get ’em perfect and even there’s a machine over there, you know that you could do that in a second. But if you want it to have the mark of the maker if you want it to have. You know, a softer, I don’t know, some love, like built into it.

Like that’s what I love about hand sewing is that, is that it couldn’t be done by a machine. If you look at it, you know that like a human being touched it and so I rarely even my wedding dresses or anything like I leave those wonky stitches in cuz those, those are are what’s beautiful to me.

Um, so I guess it also just depends on your perspective of what your goal is in the end. And if your goal is to make something that looked like a came from a factory and you are not a factory, then you probably have to work harder than me as a couturier who just kind of lets it go and like , you know? I don’t see the way that I sew as being harder than the way. That other people sew. I think it’s just different. And different is good. Like different is what needs to be celebrated. So I hope that people will , learn that they can like mix and match what they love. Like, you know, they’re in sewing theirs process people and product people, you know, the people who sew because they love the act of sewing.

And then there’s people who sew because they love to have the thing that, you know, that they made and it was made by them. And it’s, and now they get to wear it and show it out into the world. And those are both great ways. 

But if you are a product person and you want to be a process person, it’s possible that the process that you’re doing just isn’t the one for you.

And almost every little step, you know, from pinning to cutting, to, making your own patterns or not has. Has alternates, . And so if you’re like, I hate cutting, you should talk to me because cutting is so fun. Like that’s my favorite part. And I bet I do a different than you do, you know, kind of thing.

And so, I hope that people get inspired to just explore their options and when something doesn’t feel right, you don’t have to do that thing. You just gotta figure out what the other thing is.

Tina: Right, right. I love that. So it speaks to the idea that I have about, mastering your craft as well, right? So the way to master is to be a little more patient, bring it a little slower, and explore what works for you, right? Find what your flow is, what’s right for you, and take your time with it.

I love that.

Brooks Ann: Yeah. And, and the thing is also is that, you know, I mean, I have a literal master’s degree. I could look on my wall and someone has told me that I’m a master, but guess what? Like I’m never gonna master this. You know? Like I just spent six years thinking about pants. And so it’s like, that’s also what is great about it, is that I’m never gonna be bored.

I am always going to be learning new things and am always going to be evolving. So it’s, even though I had some deadline in 2018, I’m different now. 

Tina: So what drives you as a maker? What Deep down inside of Brooks Ann, like what is her driving force to be a maker from a very young age, as you said ?

Brooks Ann: Well, uh, my story is likely a little different because I have always been a maker by profession, and so in a lot of ways what drives me to be a maker is my paycheck. This is how I make my living. I always knew that I wanted to make a living, making art even before I knew how to sew. Like I wanted to try to figure out what that was. And so I started with theater. And I haven’t done any theater since 2004, but theater was a huge part of the beginning of my career.

And so it really is, what keeps driving me was that transition of learning how to sew for individuals and then trying to become part of the sewing community, which learned a different process. And so just me researching and trying to fit in and then realizing that I don’t wanna fit in, and then realizing that I want people to come with me, come with me and Tina.

We have a little bit different way to do things. And to offer that size less experience. And the same thing for the brides. Like, I want them to come and just have an individual experience. You know, when you work in theater, it’s never fit model.

I mean, sometimes you’ll have like, you know, the Rockettes, they are chosen for their size, and their talent, but also for their specific shape, because they’re supposed to look this certain way. That is rare. Usually actors come in all shapes and sizes because they’re playing real characters, real life characters.

And so, um, I want people to see that perspective and to look at designing clothes for themselves as, um, who is the character that I am in my life? What would I design for this character that is me in this play that is my life, . You know, like, what am I doing today that’s for real. Not that I’m gonna be walking on a catwalk or whatever, or maybe you have a fancy event or something that, you know, just coming to it from a individual perspective, , and trying to create this world that I am learning to enjoy of where there isn’t this size situation. Now I know that out in the real world, you know, you’re not gonna be able to avoid it, but at least when you come into my classroom, we can get away from it for a little bit.

So I can’t believe I’m about to talk about Shitz Creek on a podcast, but there’s a show called Shitz Creek, the very beginning. Um, it’s hard to get into because the characters evolved. So at the beginning, all the characters are terrible. So if you started watching it and gave up, like I did go back like I did, cuz it’s a really good show.

And one of the things, so I watched afterwards, I watched the little documentary about the making of the show, and the guy who plays David, mentioned something that I hadn’t realized about the show, but afterwards I was like, yes, that is something that I loved about it.

Um, was that in the show there’s no homophobia. You, it’s just never mentioned, you know, and so there are homosexual characters in the show, but they are never treated how they are in true life. And so I want that kind of experience when you come to my classroom is that you just sort of forget that no one is judging you and no one is.

you know, treating you like you’re different or anything else is that everybody can just be, and we can just get away from that at least while we’re in the classroom or while we’re watching the TV show or whatever. Um, you know, so that we have a better, armor to go out into life and, um, and see how it could be in the future, when we don’t have to have everything mass produced or whatever.

When you have your own wardrobe that you just make for yourself and that you don’t have to go to stores and do any of that kind of stuff anymore. 

Tina: I was actually gonna ask you like what you hope your students leave your class with or what you hope your brides leave that experience with. And I think you just touched on it, this sense of like just being okay, not only okay, but like perfectly good with who they are. Right? Like that’s not even an issue.

It’s not even on the table. 

Brooks Ann: Yeah. Instead, we get to just have the fun part of like doing the sewing or making the clothes and we can do together and that you can grow on. I’ve had, um, at least one, no, 2, 3, 3 of my brides have then had such a good experience, with the wedding dress process that they have become my students.

 You’re gonna be my friend by the end of this, just like you. Now we’re best friends and we’re just on this podcast we just met today,

Tina: I can’t wait to go on vacation together or something like, it’s gonna be so exciting. Our future

Tell us what your daily life looks like. How do you feel your days and do you have a good, whatever this means? Do you have a good work life balance, whatever that is.

Brooks Ann: Um, it depends. My day is always different. So I design my processes for myself, you know, how I work with brides, how I create e-courses, and how I get through each workday. And , they usually starts with seeing what questions my students have, um, because my support is ongoing, and then the afternoon is going to be whatever I have time for as far as, you know, I mean, it’s almost always just like boring computer stuff because I’m a solopreneur and so I do a lot of writing. If I’m in production, my worklife balance is tough because it takes so long. Like it never goes as quickly as I thought it was gonna be. So like, I assume like I’m going to spend, four months, that sounds like a long time to spend every day like filming an e-course.

No, it took nine months, you know, and then afterwards, you know, you just kind of move into a new phase of like, okay, what’s all the stuff that I neglected while I was doing that thing? , I’m always feeling like I can’t quite, I’ll write a, you know, a to-do list and then I’ll get like the bare minimum done, you know, to whereas I wanted to get more done.

I feel like I’m always kind of chasing the bare minimum. But, you know, that’s, that’s what needs to happen is I just try to prioritize and I decided my day based on what I think I can handle. And so like if I, even if I said like I need to get this done, you know, today and it really doesn’t need to get done today.

If that’s not something I’m feeling, I ha have an unending list of things that also needs to be done. And so if there’s one of those that I have the mental capacity to do at that time, then that’s the time I need to mark that off the list. Cuz another time it’s gonna be switched. and so I do try to listen to what I’m, um, Capable of handling at the particular moment.

Tina: I, for the longest time would have this deep sense of. Failure is not quite the right word, but like I was constantly behind, right? I’m constantly behind. I can’t get through this to-do list. I can’t do all the things I wanna do cuz I, like you have built my life and I’ve built my business around what I love doing.

And so like, I should be enjoying this, right? I mean, my goodness, there’s so many people who live lives and they go to work that they can’t stand. And like, how fortunate are we? That we’ve chosen something that we actually love to do, but then to feel so stressed that I can’t seem to accomplish all I need to accomplish.

And often, like you mentioned earlier, for self-imposed deadlines, um, nobody’s put that deadline on me, but

Brooks Ann: They are 

Tina: right? Right. And so I finally, for a while, maybe eight or nine years ago, I worked in a graphic design. Company. And it was very regimented how they did things right? So like you would come in in the morning and you’d have time slots for everything and you would pick your jobs and your jobs that you chose would’ve been assigned an amount of time that they would take.

And you had to pick jobs that fit how much time you were working that day, right? You didn’t pick any jobs beyond that. You didn’t pick any jobs lower than that. You just picked what would fit . And they didn’t always work that way, right? But there was just an ease to it. And there was like such a sense of satisfaction.

Cuz I would be like, all right, I’m gonna do this job, this job, and this job. Adored that about it. I adored that sense of like, I’ve accomplished what I’m supposed to accomplish today. And for the most part, when you have that little time container, you kind of fit into it, you know what I mean?

Maybe it’s not this perfect project in the end, but you’ve created something that, you know how it is we’re kind of like water, right? We fill the container we have with 

our space. And so I’ve started doing that in my business where on my to-do list, I’ll estimate how long something might take me, which I’m often wrong about, but I try it, I’ll estimate how long something might take me, and then when I pick what I’m gonna do that day, I try to see like, okay, well you have seven hours to work, eight hours to work, whatever, and you’ve chosen 24 hours worth of things.

How’s that gonna work out for you? Like, are you gonna be able to do this and are you, and is it gonna feel satisfying in the end? So I’ve been trying to really match those two so that my level of satisfaction and my level of stress. , I have more ease, right? I have more ease in my life and more satisfaction.

So I totally get that.

 We have spent the most lovely time here talking with you and hearing about how you really have designed your life for your personality and you really designed your life and your business for what lights you up, I would say, and what works for your brain and what works for your body. I would guess .

that I have several listeners on this podcast who might feel like they don’t know where to start in that, or they don’t know how to do that. And I wonder if you might have any advice for somebody who feels stuck in their life or feels like they can’t make a different choice, or they can’t design their life according to what they would really like to have happened.

I wonder if you might just have a little word that you might say to them or something you’d like them to know.

Brooks Ann: I think especially if we’re just talking about, you know, like life gets messy and you can’t always control it, but like, if we’re talking about our making practice and something that we’re doing in our free time, whether it’s for relaxation or whether it’s for, I don’t, you know, for whatever reason, um, it’s just to remember that that is all very flexible and that it is run by you.

You are in control of that. Um, and that if you don’t feel like you’re in control of that, then maybe to look for another way, to loosen that up. And a way to do that is to slow down and to not put expectations onto it. I am not a perfectionist and even though I’m a couture, yay , I am not a perfectionist.

And I think that is a key to my success. Um, but I do choose quality over quickness and I do choose enjoyability over efficiency. And I guess those are both a way of saying , it’s okay to go slow. 

It’s kind of imperative, you know, to like,

Tina: Mm-hmm.

Brooks Ann: to, to gain that patience. And so if patience is not your natural thing, it’s gonna take practice.

Everything takes practice is the other thing. It is like, you’re not gonna be good at it. You’re not gonna be good at things immediately. It’s a step by step. It’s a long game. This whole thing is a long game. But you do want to focus on the present moment and not get ahead of yourself.

You know, it took your whole life to get you right here, right now. And so, you gotta just keep working on that and you had to see, where it takes you and it’ll probably take you somewhere you didn’t expect. Um, but probably someplace, um, really awesome.

Tina: I love that. And I think that really fits into life in general, right? The idea of taking it slow, seeing where it goes. and changing the small things that you can change in your life if you feel like it’s not maybe the vibrant kind of life that you want to have, but like make those small changes.

And I think that that can just explode into something or flow beautifully into something that feeds

you. And 

Oh, Brooks Ann, it’s been so much fun. I’m wondering if you can share or people can find you.

And, we will have all of this in the show notes as well. We’ll have links to your website. We’ll have links to your e-courses and your book and all of that. But go ahead and let us know how people can follow you and where they can find.

Brooks Ann: Awesome. Um, so my name is Brooks Ann Camper and you can find me at BrooksAnn.com. Um, there’s no E in Brooks or Ann, b r o o k s a n n. Um, that will take you to my bridal website. It will also link you to my sewing school website and it will also link you to my blog and you can sign up for my newsletter and stuff like that there.

 If you’re only interested in the, um, educational stuff, you can go to learnwithbrooksann.com. And I am on Instagram at BrooksAnnCamper um, C A M P E R. Uh, and I think those are the places that you can find me and those places also will have my email address if you want to email me directly.

Um, cuz I would love to hear from you.

Tina: Very nice. I have to tell you, I’m very inspired by this, call. We have so much in common. The thing that we don’t have in common is that I can be fast, so fast, like so fast that, um, that I don’t always take the time with the things that I know how to do well, right? And so I have been inspired by this call to slow some things down and I’ve been exploring that in my own life anyway.

And I think that might be part of why I have this autoimmune thing going on is this like, slow it down lady. Like you’re going way too fast to really enjoy life. And so you have inspired me and I am so grateful to have had this chance to talk to you. Thank you for being here.

Brooks Ann: Well, I feel grateful to have to talk to you too. This was really great. I was super nervous. I just work alone and I don’t talk to other human beings that aren’t my husband like most weeks. Um, and so, it was really great to be invited on the podcast and, to talk to my new best friend Tina

Tina: Excellent. Woo.

Well, that’s it for our show. What a great time I had talking with Brooks Ann, and I am so delighted that you got to listen in. I hope you are doing something amazing. while you listened, whether that was walking in the sunshine or spinning some yarn or maybe making dinner, whatever that might be. I hope that.

You are living your most vibrant life and listening to this podcast and finding inspiration by hearing someone else’s story. Speaking of inspiration,

would you do me a favor? Would you go down to your favorite podcasting app and subscribe to the show, and while you’re at it, you leave me a review because I wanna inspire other people by the stories that I am loving sharing with. All right. Have the best day

and a final word from our sponsor, Howl at the Loom. I wanna thank Howl the Loom for sponsoring the podcast and the beautiful work that she’s doing here in Northern Lower, Michigan. The work that she’s doing for the local fiber fair and the fibershed that we have here in Northern Michigan, and the work that she’s doing as a weaver, a teacher, and a dyer.

Check out her website, Howlattheloom.com for information about any of the classes she might be doing in the area, and that’s H O W L A T T H E L O O M.com.